Legislature(2001 - 2002)
03/19/2001 01:05 PM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SB 72-TAKE A CHILD HUNTING SEASON Number 0675 CO-CHAIR SCALZI announced the next order of business would be CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 72(FIN), "An Act relating to 'take-a-child- hunting' seasons for big game." KRISTOPHER KNAUSS, Staff to Senator Pete Kelly, Alaska State Legislature, came forth on behalf of Senator Kelly, sponsor of the bill. He stated that since the last time the House Resources Standing Committee met, a proposed House committee substitute (CS) [Version B, 22-LS0084\B, Utermohle, 3/15/01] had been drafted that hopefully answers questions that were asked. He said a legal opinion has also been drafted dealing with the constitutionality of the bill, regarding whether it is special legislation. Number 0745 CO-CHAIR SCALZI referred to a letter written in support of this bill by Allison Magby, an eighth-grader at Golden View Middle School in Anchorage. Number 0825 REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked if this bill applies to bowhead whales and whether there was any analysis done on this. MR. KNAUSS replied that it would not apply. REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked if this has been verified from the Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G). MR. KNAUSS said no, they haven't received an official statement from [ADF&G]. REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked if this bill creates a preference for sport hunters over subsistence users. MR. KNAUSS deferred this question to [ADF&G]. Number 0920 REPRESENTATIVE FATE referred to a question from the last meeting; he asked if there would be any conflict between bow hunters and [other] hunters, since bow hunting is usually an earlier season. MR. KNAUSS said his understanding, based on discussions with the [ADF&G] and Board [of Game], is that there would be no conflict. Number 0985 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN indicated he wanted further clarification on how there will not be conflict between bow hunters and other hunters. MR. KNAUSS asked if he was talking about "with the regular season". REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said, "Or with the early season." He mentioned that [this bill] would have kids between 8-17 "out there" with a gun. MR. KNAUSS stated that the Board of Game would establish the actual season so that there would be no conflict. But he was not sure how the Board of Game would do this. [The meeting stopped for a few minutes due to technical difficulties.] Number 1131 REPRESENTATIVE FATE noted that [Version B] clarifies a question the committee had regarding the legality of the child's or adult's "taking the game and doing the actual pulling of that trigger." He said this new language is found in lines 10-11. [That language read: "The adult, parent, stepparent or legal guardian who accompanies the child may only assist the child in taking big game."] MR. KNAUSS commented that the bill's intent is not to address the method or area that [the season] pertains to, but is to address a season. CO-CHAIR SCALZI reiterated that the bill is leaving it up to the Board [of Game] to determine the season, and that this bill is allowing the board to make an additional seasonal change to incorporate "take-a-child-hunting". REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated that he went hunting with his father when he was young. However, the idea of a special season to do this never came up. He said, "I had to go out there and compete with the big guys just like everyone else, and I coveted the opportunity to hunt with my dad." He asked, however, whether this bill makes special dispensations for this group [children between 8-17 years]. If so, he asked if it is possible that another dispensation will be made for another group. He stated that having a [special season], especially in the front half of the season, creates a further impediment to the normal hunting operation. This makes the animals aware that "there are guns out there and things happen." Consequently, he said, he has some real concerns about the bill. Number 1342 REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE commented that a lingering concern is that much discretion is being given to the Board of Game without any sideboards. [The bill] is trusting that issues such as sustained yield, subsistence, and bowhead whales will all be addressed [by the Board of Game], without [the legislature's] certainty that this will happen. She said she wouldn't object to this bill's moving out of committee, but would like to see, at a minimum, a letter of intent adopted by the House Resources Standing Committee that lays out some of these concerns and specific things that the committee wants addressed. REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE further stated that the legislature is supposed to draft laws and delegate authority to the agencies. She asked, "If we're not clear about what it is we're delegating and we're not clear of what our purpose is or [what our] limitations are, then how can we complain when regulations come out the way we didn't think they would?" REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA remarked that she was still unclear on what impact, if any, this [bill] would have on favoring sport [hunting] over subsistence. Number 1463 GORDY WILLIAMS, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner, Alaska Department of Fish & Game, stated that he does not see a conflict in the bill, since it is left up to the Board of Game. He referred to earlier testimony, when he said this bill wouldn't apply in areas with Tier II hunts, since the bill says [in appropriate areas", line 5, Version B]. He suggested that if this bill passes, public discussion would take place regarding where these seasons would be appropriate. The board feels that if areas already have restrictions, it would not want to place extra pressure on them by adding a season or additional time. Number 1540 REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER commented that the Board of Game may already be [in the process of allowing "take-a-child-hunting" seasons], so she was unsure of "where the groundswell of support" came from or what the sponsor's motivation for the bill was. MR. KNAUSS explained that [Senator Kelly's] intent was to establish these seasons before the beginning of school. He said a resolution that established these seasons passed about three to four years ago. The board acted on it for a year, but then stopped. This bill would put it in statute. REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked if the current situation is that requests to have special seasons have been made, and in response, the Board [of Game] has sometimes allowed them. MR. KNAUSS said he did not know. REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA remarked that this is really important. She expressed concern that the Board [of Game] is being pushed with something that it has already been trying to make decisions on. She indicated this bill is a statement that the board would read as, "You're gonna do it, and you're gonna do it a little more," rather than leaving discretion to the board. MR. KNAUSS indicated "fish and wildlife conservation" and Senator Kelly, for the most part, agreed on the language of the bill. The only thing they differed on was "whether or not who pulls the trigger." But, he said, he thought [ADF&G] was in favor of this as well. REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER stated that there is a big difference between the administration and the Board of Game; they are totally separate entities. She would like to know how the Board of Game feels about this bill, she said, and asked if Mr. Knauss had any letters from the board. MR. KNAUSS said no. Number 1703 MR. WILLIAMS referred to Representative Fate's comments on clarifying the language. He mentioned changes from the original bill [SB 72] to [Version B] regarding a change from the word "hunt" to "take". He then referred to questions regarding an animal that is wounded and the adult's role in such a situation; he asked how this part of the bill would "play into this." He indicated he did know what would happen. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN remarked that this concept is great. By establishing a special season, however, he wondered "what kind of insurance we have that 'Billy Joe Bob' doesn't take his seven-year-old out with him a week ahead of schedule just to make sure he gets his own." He said there would be no proof of this. He went on to suggest that if a child were to need a large-caliber gun to shoot a really big animal, the child's father may realize the child needs assistance and, therefore, would help out. MR. KNAUSS indicated that adding "adult ... may only assist child in taking big game" [lines 10-11] was one of the reasons that the age of a child was changed to eight years. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN remarked that this is not defined. He said it is opening a Pandora's box. He asked why an early, open, special season is required. MR. KNAUSS replied that the sponsor's intent was to have an extended season, before the regular season, so that children would not miss school. He mentioned that schools in the Interior are starting earlier, which goes into moose-hunting season. REPRESENTATIVE FATE made a motion to move SB 72 [unspecified version] out of committee with individual recommendations. CO-CHAIR SCALZI asked if the proposed House CS [Version B, 22- LS0084\B, Utermohle, 3/15/01] had been adopted. REPRESENTATIVE FATE stated his belief that it had been adopted. Number 1978 REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA voiced her objection to moving the bill out of committee. She said her family hunts and she has no objection to taking children out hunting. However, she still has too many questions about definitions in the bill. For example, she does not know what "assist" means. She said she appreciated the legal opinions and had read them carefully. REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA went on to say that the bill is "well- done" but that there is "fudging language in it in terms of assumptions," which concerns her on the "legal side of things." She also indicated the legislature shouldn't interfere with the Board of Game's decision-making, especially when [the legislature] doesn't know if these requests have been made to the board. At this time, she concluded, she couldn't support this bill. Number 2034 REPRESENTATIVE FATE stated that this bill allows for the companionship of a father and child, and educates children on hunting as well as the value of understanding firearms and what they can do, which is one of the arguments in committee today. For these reasons, and for this bill's being enacted in areas where there are conflicts with school, he said he intended to vote for this bill. Number 2075 CO-CHAIR SCALZI recounted concerns such as special dispensation that came up at the meeting. He noted that issues relating to the Board of Game included giving it too much discretion, questions as to whether or not it had participated in ["take-a- child-hunting" seasons], and receiving no recommendations from the board. Another concern is whether the adult would take over if an animal had been shot and wounded. He mentioned the issue of "supplementing the actual education," such as an eight-year- old shooting a "30-06." He pointed out that there are opportunities for hunting smaller game with a smaller-caliber rifle. But if someone brings a seven-, eight-, or nine-year-old to hunt moose, "you're obviously going to be shooting a pretty large-sized caliber." He also mentioned Representative Kerttula's comments regarding the lack of clarity of definitions in the bill. CO-CHAIR SCALZI referred to Representative Fate's comments that the sponsor's intent for education regarding hunting is good. He remarked that his personal recommendations are similar to Representative Green's. He thinks that currently there is ample opportunity to take one's children hunting in-season by taking the child out of school or going before school. He mentioned that there is also other game available. Number 2250 A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Fate, Chenault, and Stevens voted in favor of moving the bill out of committee. Representatives Kapsner, Kerttula, and Scalzi voted against it. Representative Green abstained from voting. [Representatives McGuire and Masek were absent for the vote.] Therefore, HCS CSSB 72(RES) failed to move from the House Resources Standing Committee by a vote of 3-3.
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